Infrastructure Upgrades/Changes: Git(ea)

[Matthew Brush]

On 2017-10-09 07:49 AM, Simon Steinbeiss wrote:
> Hi Matthew,
> 
> I specifically wrote in my first E-Mail:
> …
> "In order not to get stuck in endless discussions (which could be dragged
> out by the fact that people have lives and can't always participate in the
> discussions) I would like to propose that we try to move ahead with a
> switch to Gitea."
> 

You also said immediately after:

"I know that feels a little dramatic and I'm hoping to also spark some
discussion here, but it's not as brutal as it may sound."

Also you specifically said earlier:

"We have started writing up requirements for the new infrastructure 
(again, both hardware and software) and have started looking into 
candidates more concretely."

Which is why I mentioned some of the pain points I have as an occasional 
contributor which could likely (hopefully) be solved with Gitea. Since I 
haven't seen any other discussion about this, I just wanted to give 
another viewpoint as someone who tries to participate in the project.

> I also mentioned self-hosting as a hard requirement, so Github simply is
> not an option anymore (even if it was initially mentioned on the planning
> page, which I linked for transparency-reasons).
> 

You never said why, so I only mentioned it at the end of my email that I 
personally think most of the pain points could be solved by using 
Github. I also specifically said I can understand that some people don't 
like to rely on 3rd parties.

If you read my original response to your email, you'll see it was 
largely on-topic and encouraging. Any other emails I sent on the topic 
were responding to people who specifically responded to me. I was not 
aware it was not allowed to respond to people when they talk to me.

> Again - and without irony! - it's nice if you participate in the discussion
> in a lively way, but please focus on the proposal at hand. If you want to

As I haven't seen any previous discussion and the most obvious and 
popular choices seem (if you only read the mailing list) to have been 
unjustly dismissed without reason, I didn't realize any decisions had 
been firmly made (in private) and all other options were completely out 
of scope. Otherwise I wouldn't have even mentioned Github, even though I 
have first hand experience with projects that moved there where it 
dramatically increased productivity and contributions, two things that 
Xfce suffers from acutely.

Anyway, I'm done talking about this. I tried to be encouraging and 
thankful, and I feel like I'm being scorned for that.

Have fun,
Matthew Brush

> help us with the migration, with testing out Gitea or with finding missing
> pieces e.g. here: https://wiki.xfce.org/infra/nextgen#proof_of_concept then
> please let us know! Also if you have previous experiences with Gitea and
> think it's good/bad/proven-in-use etc that would also be very well-received!
> We're not 100% sold on Gitea, but the benefits are that we can quite
> instantly start working with it.
> 
> Cheers
> Simon
> 
> 
> On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 1:53 PM Pasi Lallinaho <pasi at shimmerproject.org>
> wrote:
> 
>> Just to clarify, this is what everybody could read on the first mail on
>> this thread:
>>
>> On 08.10.2017 01:21, Simon Steinbeiss wrote:
>>> The current proposal for phase 1 would be the following:
>>> 1) Replace cgit/gitolite with Gitea (for browsing and administering
>>> Git repos)
>>> 2) Keep Bugzilla and Dokuwiki for their purposes (you can see the
>>> integration in the instance Skunnyk set up)
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Pasi
>>
>> On 09.10.2017 14:21, Matthew Brush wrote:
>>> On 2017-10-09 03:30 AM, Simon Steinbeiss wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> while it's nice to see so many people contribute to this discussion
>>>> let's
>>>> stay on topic. For the time being we're discussing whether to set up
>>>> Gitea,
>>>> not Gitlab or to use Github.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Well you did link to:
>>>
>>> https://wiki.xfce.org/infra/nextgen
>>>
>>> Which appears to show the options being considered. It seems/seemed
>>> totally on-topic for people on the mailing list to participate in the
>>> discussion, otherwise you could have just said:
>>>
>>> "We're considering switching to Gitea and nothing else, yeah or nay?"
>>>
>>> Anyway, sorry for responding to the people who replied to my message
>>> and this :)
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Matthew Brush
>>>
>>>> Gitlab has very different resource needs than Gitea so we'd have to find
>>>> different hosting/sponsoring beforehands.
>>>>
>>>> What I proposed is a brief setup/migration phase to avoid endless
>>>> discussions, but keep our eyes on the price (which is 4.14).
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>> Simon
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Am Mo., 9. Okt. 2017, 11:42 schrieb Matthew Brush
>>>> <mbrush at codebrainz.ca>:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2017-10-09 02:01 AM, Isabell Liefer wrote:
>>>>>> Hi! I would like to suggest to move to a selfhosted GitLab instance
>>>>>> and
>>>>> to also mirror the repo on GitHub for a wider audience. What that be
>>>>> convenient for you both?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> There appears to already be a Github mirror, but it sort of misses the
>>>>> mark if it's not used as the development platform.
>>>>>
>>>>> To restate it again, I'd be very happy with a new self-hosted
>>>>> Gitlab/Gitea/whatever, I'm just playing devil's advocate because I
>>>>> think
>>>>> Github makes a lot of sense for a project like Xfce, except for ethical
>>>>> (or whatever you call it) reasons. In terms of improving visibility,
>>>>> ease of administration, and making it easier for (new) people to
>>>>> contribute, Github (currently) wins hands-down, IMO.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Matthew Brush
>>>>>
>>>>>> Kind Regards
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Am 09.10.2017 um 04:17 schrieb Matthew Brush:
>>>>>>> On 2017-10-08 06:51 PM, André Miranda wrote:
>>>>>>>> GitHub is awesome, I really enjoy using it, but being proprietary
>>>>>>>> is a
>>>>>>>> no-go for a FLOSS project such as Xfce,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Github releases lots of their code as open source, but you can't
>>>>>>> "install their whole business" locally, no.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Loads of FLOSS projects are completely fine, and rather thrive on
>>>>>>> Github. Unlimited free hosting for open source projects with lots of
>>>>>>> useful features, IMO, is rather nice.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To be clear, I'm not advocating for Xfce switching to Github, I'm
>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>> pointing out that it's purely a political/ethical/emotional decision
>>>>>>> rather than a technical/user-centric one. Personally I lean towards
>>>>>>> pragmatism rather than having a strong political stance, but I can
>>>>>>> appreciate that some people are more passionate about this than I am.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>> Matthew Brush
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Xfce4-dev mailing list
>>>>>>> Xfce4-dev at xfce.org
>>>>>>> https://mail.xfce.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce4-dev
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>>>>>> Xfce4-dev at xfce.org
>>>>>> https://mail.xfce.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce4-dev
>>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
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>>
>> --
>> Pasi Lallinaho (knome)                    › https://open.knome.fi/
>> Xubuntu Website Lead & Council Member     › https://xubuntu.org/
>> Shimmer Project co-founder                › https://shimmerproject.org/
>> Ubuntu member
>>
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>> Xfce4-dev at xfce.org
>> https://mail.xfce.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce4-dev
> 
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