Proposal: reorganizing i18n

Vinzenz Vietzke vinz at vinzv.de
Sat Nov 4 20:35:07 CET 2017 

Hi there,

yes, I'm here. ;)

As Simon gave me admin rights for Transifex I recently started cleaning
up the join and language requests. I contacted translators requesting
languages already available and accepted join requests for language teams.

Regards the mailing lists "merge":
I think we should inform all lists but give them different time spans
until the list is deleted. For semi-active lists maybe 14 days, for
inactive just 7 days?
I just started writing an info mail for semi active lists. DE and EN is
already in shape but anyone willing to translate BR or FR - feel free to
join the etherpad:
https://pad.xfce.space/p/i18n-maillist-info

In general I tried to boil things down and place it onto the wiki for
documentation reasons. Anything missing should be placed there:
https://wiki.xfce.org/translations/reorganizing#working_tasks_resources_short_term

Best regards,
vinz.

Am 02.11.2017 um 22:17 schrieb Romain B:
> Hi all,
> 
> I'm agree with the short term plan.
> 
> Some lists are not used since ages (more than 4 years for the -pl or
> -cn), so I propose to close them now.
> We can send a mail to semi actives lists (fr/de/br, in native language ?
> (anybody to help ? :))) which explain the plan, and redirect people to
> the global xfce-i18n.
> 
> About long term, I'm agree too. We need a big revamp of the translator
> wikis and simplify the "introduce" process (
> https://wiki.xfce.org/translations /
> https://docs.xfce.org/contribute/translate/start ). Vinzenz, are you
> still motivated?
> 
> I'm available on freenode/#xfce-dev , so whoever wants to help on this
> topic, ping me :)
> 
> 
> Skunnyk,
> 
> 
> On 10/10/2017 03:54 AM, André Miranda wrote:
>> These ones:
>> https://mail.xfce.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce-i18n-br
>> https://mail.xfce.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce-i18n-cn
>> https://mail.xfce.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce-i18n-de
>> https://mail.xfce.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce-i18n-fr
>> https://mail.xfce.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce-i18n-pl
>>
>> Instead, keep only:
>> https://mail.xfce.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce-i18n
>>
>> All in all, I agree with the proposal, except B3, there's enough
>> friction already about self-hosted/proprietary services, let's see how
>> we settle for the git hosting then we talk about Transifex :)
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Andre Miranda
>>
>> On 10/09/2017 10:48 PM, Igor Zakharov wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> What maillists are you talking about?
>>> I'm translating on transifex but have never used any maillist for that.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Igor
>>>
>>> 09.10.2017, 20:41, "Pablo Roberto Lezaeta Reyes" <prflr88 at gmail.com>:
>>>>
>>>>     On Tue, Oct 10, 2017 at 1:08 AM Vinzenz Vietzke <vinz at vinzv.de
>>>>     <http:///touch/compose?to=vinz@vinzv.de>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>         Hi there,
>>>>
>>>>         I recently went through many parts of Xfce's i18n
>>>>         infrastructure and
>>>>         documentation. To make it short: lot's of old stuff, many things
>>>>         unmaintained but truly a lot of useful gems grown throughout
>>>>         the years.
>>>>
>>>>         So following up is my proposal for reorganizing i18n in
>>>>         Xfce, split into
>>>>         two phases. I put it up on this list to reach more people.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         A. Short term
>>>>
>>>>         1. Dump mailing lists. One list (xfce-i18n) is enough and for
>>>>         language-specific questions, discussions a short [LANG] tag
>>>>         added to the
>>>>         email topic should do the distinction job.
>>>>         Bonus: questions might be answered quicker as more people
>>>>         read them.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ​Yes, 1 Mailist is enough and most (just most not all) project I
>>>> know use only one.​
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         2. Before dumping email all lists subscribers directly and
>>>>         (of course)
>>>>         telling them about. Plus asking them if they are on this
>>>>         list alread
>>>>         and, which is even more important, if they would like to
>>>>         help out on
>>>>         Transifex.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ​There are cases of Transifex contributors not in any of the lists
>>>> so if is possible send a mail
>>>> to the contributos on transifex too could help them know that there
>>>> is a maillist or see that is
>>>> encouraged to at least be part if it.​
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>         3. Transifex needs coordinators for every language. If there
>>>>         is no one
>>>>         coordinating a language there should be some
>>>>         "super-coordinators" as
>>>>         backup. These persons shouldn't be devs or at least not core
>>>>         devs.
>>>>         Stacking work leads to problems.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ​Yes a super-cordinator could go in hand since there are some
>>>> languages without cordinators
>>>> as you mentioned, also there are cordinators that are MIA too.​
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>         B. Long term (mostly RFC)
>>>>
>>>>         1. Ease up the introduction process. Someone dropping by at
>>>>         Transifex
>>>>         sees the need of some translation work in his language. If
>>>>         he decides to
>>>>         register at TX, to join team *and* do work: yeah, cool!
>>>>         But forcing him to additionally join the mailing list and
>>>>         introduce
>>>>         himself is a major blocking thing. I guess it's something
>>>>         from the
>>>>         pre-Transifex days where quality assurance had to be done
>>>>         manually. But
>>>>         with the split of translators & reviewers over TX this
>>>>         should be obsolete.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ​Well so far many aren't arealdy on the mailist so dropping it is ok.​
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>         2. Wiki needs clean up. There are lots of really, really
>>>>         useful things.
>>>>         But as well there is lots of ancient, outdated stuff.
>>>>         Unfortunately most
>>>>         stuff is mixed so there needs to be manual work done.
>>>>         TBD: a process of cleaning up, either dumping everything and
>>>>         rebuilding
>>>>         or the other way around.
>>>>         ​​
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ​Wiki just need a way to anyone to contribute, I have tryed sign-in,
>>>> log-ing but i failed... is
>>>> somewhat ​looked or need special permissions?
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>         3. Revise the use of Transifex. It's not self hosted and it's
>>>>         proprietary but it does the job. There are up- and downsides
>>>>         of it so in
>>>>         the light of the Git hosting discussion TX should also be
>>>>         reconsidered
>>>>         *openly*.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ​I still remember why we move to transifex.
>>>> "Was because the self hosting was becoming so time consimong and we
>>>> havent
>>>> updated the stuff and it was breaking" or something like that...
>>>> Returning to self host will be like return to the same thing that we
>>>> move to
>>>> reduce the burder over the maintainers.
>>>>
>>>> Also I thing with all we could ended trying to chew more that our
>>>> maws can handle, so
>>>> better see how the git-self-host-move go and then evaluate the
>>>> option and the option​s of move
>>>> and where to move with the translations.
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>         Generally speaking I'd step up for both doing "dirty jobs"
>>>>         as well as
>>>>         coordination work.
>>>>         Thanks for your time reading this!
>>>>
>>>>         Looking forward to your comments,
>>>>         vinz.
>>>>         --
>>>>         Xfce.space | skyrocket your desktop usage
>>>>         https://xfce.space <https://xfce.space/>
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>>>>         <https://mail.xfce.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce4-dev>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
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