RC1 compile/link error

Auke Kok sofar at lunar-linux.org
Mon Nov 15 13:42:32 CET 2004

jumping the gun here...

purslow at sympatico.ca wrote:

>if the problem is Libtool, then that should be said prominently
>on the Xfce WWW site & users will be warned not to expect much.
>look what it says under 'Documentation -> Installation Guide':
>all is light & no problems are to be expected ...

it is not expected that normal users do this (install 2 conflicting 
versions side-by-side). Therefore it should not be documented in the 
place where normal users search for help. You might confuse them.

>nor is there anything to warn users
>that 4.0.6 & 4.1.x may not work if installed simultaneously.

this is what Randy tried to clear up. Please do not attempt to install 
the two version side-by-side unless you know what you are doing. I 
thought that was clear.

>in fact, till last Thursday -- when something non-Xfce intervened --
>i was happily using 4.1.91 in /usr/local while 4.0.6 was installed in /usr .
>and today, after moving some library items aside,
>all of has installed (i omitted mixer, systray & toys).
>however, when i try to start it -- after changing the PATH
>& moving /usr/lib/pkgconfig items aside & rebooting -- it won't start:
>Xfce4-session can't find  libxfsm-4.2.so.0 ,
>which of course is not in  /usr/lib , tho' it is in  /usr/local/lib .
>i have never encountered this kind of problem with other packages:
>eg i have had the Gentoo version of Lynx in /usr
>& my own compiled & installed version in  /usr/local.
I doubt lynx will give you any problems ever, as it DOES NOT INVOLVE 

cmp(apple, pears) -> syntax error.

>do other projects perhaps not use Libtool ?  if so, why does Xfce4 use it ?
>if they do use it, why do they not have the same problems with versions ?
>could you learn something from Gentoo's slots ?

many many many many many projects use libtool. on my well-filled box 
with 739 applications installed there are 367 that use libtool during 

all of them suffer from the same problems that xfce4 have, and that is 
that libtool (and the other packaging tools as pkgconfig automake etc) 
are supposed to make life easier for programmers, and as such, they 
automate stuff that technically and by design could be wrong (especially 
if you install .... you get it .... concurrent versions of libraries 
etc. that are not compatible).


nothing to read here please read on.

>>2) It's not that we don't want you to report bugs.
>>Please understand that this issue has come up before ad nauseum
>>and while it may be new to you it's tired and old for us
>>(and I haven't even been here that long!)
>>Accordingly, we've become rather short on patience.
>i've been reading & occasionally contributing to this list since c May 2003
>& i don't remember seeing any discussion of this issue except for the rather irritable reactions to my own messages.
he should not have ... maybe in different wording. At least he made 
clear that you should not do things that are dangerous, even if people 
didn't warn you about that initially.

ass: I hit myself!
farmer: oh yeah sorry don't hit yourself
ass: okay, thanks!

>if you're getting tired of the problem,
>why not give a higher priority to solving it ?

coding xfce has a higher priority than solving the mysteries of libtool. 
They work for us because we know the limitations and we might have 
failed in the beginning to warn you about the implications of libtool 
etc. But now we have warned you. It is up to you to handle that gracefully.

>as i said above, other projects don't seem to suffer from it.

do you often install concurrent versions of libraries that conflict from 
those projects too?

>there can be no question about the ability of Xfce4 developers
>nor about the time & effort they put in, but i do question priorities:
>look at all the new bells & whistles being daily debated on this list,
>while a fundamental problem has been shunted aside.

that's the privilege of being a dev. You get to decide what you are 
coding today. Start paying them salary and that changes.

>>Don't get your feelings hurt; it's not meant to be personal.
>no-one on a mailing-list is important enough to get upset about (big smile).
good, now get over it or start learning automake, autoconf, libtool, 
pkgconfig and fix it.


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