xfce4-session & XEmacs

[Ric]

Hi Benedikt:

--- Benedikt Meurer <Benedikt.Meurer at unix-ag.uni-siegen.de> wrote:
> On Fri, 18, Jul 2003, Ric wrote:
> 
> > > Autostart is handled by xfsm as well (since 0.0.2x)
> > 
> > Yes, I know and that is a problem, here.  It always runs .../Autostart/*
> > even if I do not have it in the xinitrc file.
> 
> I'll add an option to disable it.
> 

Wow. That's a great idea.  I hope it is not too hard.  


> > > Ok, I suggest you to close xemacs by hand before logging out for now.
> > > This is really a xemacs IMHO. I'll try to work-around it, but that'll
> > > take some time.
> > 
> > That's fine, can do.  
> > Many of the problems that are occurring here with xfsm do not happen in
> >  XFce3.  
> > It _has_ (not "had" - it ain't dead yet... ) '' builtin session management
> ''
> > according 
> > to the .xsession-errors message that is generated every time I run XFce 3.
> > Although your xfsm can do much more I am sure, eventually,  what XFce 3
> > does now is PDG.  Ask Olivier...
> 
> I did, and Xfce3 had no *real* session management. Just pseudo session
> management done by the window manager. I know the Gnome people have

Yes, it is not nearly as good for SM as what you are doing.
What you are doing really makes XFce v4 a very special DE and, ithink,  will
make it 
appeal to a much broader range of people. 


> lots of work-arounds in their session manager to support various
> broken apps, and just to make things clear: I won't do so, fix the
> applications instead. The xemacs problem might be solvable, don't

You are, of course, correct.  I think that's the right way, too. 
If it is XEmacs or Xabc ap, I will make a bug report for that ap but,
unfortunately, 
until xfsm gets a little more mature will have to post something here first.

For what it is worth, I found that there has been a recent release for XEmacs
stable to -13 and will get it properly installed here this weekend.  I read
the 'changes' for it and did not see any "session" info in it but maybe it is
a related problem that will just go away.  I hope so.


> know, we'll see. Anyway you cannot compare xfce3 to xfce4(.2) in this
> case since this are two completly different things.
> 
> > Also, maybe, running XFce v3 would help give an idea of what (XFce) end
> > users will expect to just work.
> 
> "Just work" is easy to say, if you're not the one to make it "work" :)
> 

Yep, but _you_ can do it. I know you can.  You are a very smart guy.
No pressure though - whenever-ifever you get to it.

Please do not misconstrue what I am writing to be some kind of mandate that
you make it comparable. It is not meant that way.  The xfsm has a way to do
things that you have decided is the way it is going to be because it is the
way you have determined it should be.  I am not questioning your vision.   You
are fortunately an amiable individual and open to suggestions, even if phrased
improperly,  so some things in your vision might adjust.  I can point out
things but until xfsm grows up a bit won't know if it is the ap or xfsm (or
me) that needs to be whipped. :)

For example, I noticed today that *nice* icon in the taskber system tray also 
has a popup infotip which gives " # clients connected ".  That's really nice
info 
to have at the pointer tip.  I get a kinda warm, fuzzy feeling. :)  
How often does it update that info?
The reason I ask is because, after login, I can run xfdesktop to set the panel
switcher names for the workspaces and then kill it.   However, after I kill it
with a process manager, the popup infotip continues to show it connected even
though it is not in the "Session control" list.  Of course, if I use the
Session control window's "Kill client" to kill it, the popup infotip gets
updated (decreased) immediately.  
See what I mean? I really do not know if that is the way it was intended or a
bug.  The only thing I can do is tell you about it. Then you have to decide
... and let us know.


> > It really is a great little DE, although not as
> > purty & extensible as XFce 4.  I am not positive, but it might be the
> fastest
> > *nix DE in the whole D! world and it has 'some' session management, which,
> > BTW, does not depend upon the Autostart crutch to work although it can use
> > it if the end user desires it.
> 
> The Autostart stuff was moved to xfce4-session because we had various
> problems with apps being started before the desktop is running. In
> addition it was requested that it should be possible to start apps
> _after_ the session manager is done. But you have to take care to not
> put apps in Autostart that are actually session aware (even X11R5 are
> now managed through smproxy), else you might end up with problems on
> startup (depends on the application).
> 

Yes, I found that out with XEmacs. One is never too old to learn. :)


> Anyway, xfsm still requires a lot of work, and I'll try to address it
> after 4.0 is released. But nevertheless, its more important to have
> the actual apps fixed, than adding workarounds to xfsm (thats our
> policy for XFce in general, and xfsm will follow that as well).
> 

Agreed;  You are correct of course.  
Please let me know if there is an ap that you know causes pain/won't work
because 
of something lacking in its code and not because of xfsm.  I will report that
anomally 
to them if it is something that I have experience with here(e.g., XEmacs).


> 
> Benedikt
> 
> -- 

As always, thanks -your reply and comments are appreciated.

=====
Have A Great Day!

Ric
***
Thought for today:
Do not take yourself too seriously.  Nobody else does. ;)

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