ANNOUNCE: xfce4-panel 4.15.1 released (Andrzej)

[Levente]

Andrzej,


Instead of complaining, implement it as an optional feature.

Lev
.

On Thu, Jan 16, 2020, 00:28 Andrzej <andrzejr at xfce.org> wrote:

> Hi Simon,
>
> There was never a consensus regarding switching to CSD, and will never be,
> because:
>
> - Xfce is an X11 desktop and as such it has to work and look well with
> other X11-compatible components. Removing or interfering with the
> third-party WM's ability to handle window decorations makes Xfce
> non-compliant X11 desktop. This is not a hypothetical issue. Until recently
> even Xfwm4 didn't support CSD correctly and there is no lack of WM's that
> will have problems with it because they handle windows differently. Xfce as
> a small project strove for being standard compliant, not pushing our way of
> doing things onto others. Basically, for as long as we use X11 SSD is
> non-optional, whether we like it or not.
>
> - Community is split - some users strongly prefer CSD, many others
> strongly prefer SSD. The latter part includes new users who have switched
> to Xfce because of similar changes implemented in other projects. If you
> find my email harsh, wait for them.
>
> You've mentioned discussions and voting - the only thing I've seen was a
> couple of posts pretty much announcing your decision, where critical
> opinions (mine included) were swept under the carpet because of "limited
> manpower". This is not how things work - if you want a feature - you have
> to find manpower to implement and maintain it. Controversial features are
> particularly tricky - say there was a vote (was it?) and 30% (just an
> example) of people voted against the feature. Are you really going to throw
> them under the bus to provide eye candy to the remaining 70%?
>
> To be clear - CSD is a valuable feature, even if mostly concerning
> aesthetics, and many Xfce/Xfwm4 users will like it. I'm against the current
> non-optional implementation, not having CSD at all. Just add a user
> accessible option for opting in/out and be done with that.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Andrzej
>
>
> On 15/01/2020 17:45, Simon Steinbeiss wrote:
>
> Hi Andrzej,
>
> the switch to client side decorations was discussed and voted on in the
> currently active core development team, put publicly on the roadmap for
> 4.16 [0] and announced in a blog post [1].
> We didn't take this decision lightly and there was a lot of discussion,
> but in the end we agreed on taking this step - including not making this
> optional (in parts because of the very limited manpower the project has at
> hand). I stand by this common decision.
>
> While I appreciate your concern, I don't appreciate you offering to revert
> my work on this agreed-upon roadmap item. This is not in the collaborative
> spirit I learned when joining the project and I hope you reconsider -
> especially as this is not the result of an isolated design decision taken
> by an individual.
>
> Finally (and more technically speaking), the bigger chunk of change is in
> libxfce4ui [2], not the panel. So even if you were to revert those two tiny
> commits, it would not change the overall usage of CSD in the panel's
> dialogs.
>
> Cheers
> Simon
>
>
> [0] https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/4.16/roadmap/general_ui and
> https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/4.16/roadmap/general_ui/csd
> [1]
> https://simon.shimmerproject.org/2019/10/19/xfce-4-15-development-phase-starting/
> [2]
> https://git.xfce.org/xfce/libxfce4ui/commit/?id=40743c4158f4f4d2357dd72326a915a969f20f94
> (and the following commits)
>
>
> Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2020 08:21:01 +0000
>> From: Andrzej <andrzejr at xfce.org>
>> To: xfce at xfce.org
>> Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-panel 4.15.1 released
>> Message-ID: <96b2113b-36e6-cf5d-3588-6679cdbaf486 at xfce.org>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>>
>> On 14/01/2020 00:11, Simon Steinbeiss wrote:
>> > - tic-tac-toe: Fix XfceTitledDialog with CSD
>> > - add-item dialog: Fix XfceTitledDialog with CSD
>>
>> Please revert these changes or make them configurable in UI and off by
>> default. Or I will revert them myself.
>>
>> Andrzej
>>
>
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