Clean up default theme and wallpaper collection

[Jon Sturm]

On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 12:19 AM, Auke Kok <auke at foo-projects.org> wrote:
> On 06/23/2011 02:56 AM, Pasi Lallinaho wrote:
>>
>> On 06/23/2011 09:40 AM, Nick Schermer wrote:
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 12:16 AM, Pasi Lallinaho
>>> <pasi at shimmerproject.org>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 06/23/2011 12:56 AM, Nick Schermer wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 11:14 PM, Pasi Lallinaho
>>>>> <pasi at shimmerproject.org>  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I just added a new item in the Design SIG wiki.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Xfce default collection of themes (both GTK and xfwm) and
>>>>>> wallpapers
>>>>>> is a bit out-of-date. We really should make it 2011.
>>>>>
>>>>> Well the desktop will be a new module for 4.10 (if everything goes as
>>>>> planned), but imho we should just have 1 nice Xfce wallpaper (big for
>>>>> 2012 screens) and nothing else. It only increases the package size and
>>>>> most people will change it anyway.
>>>>>
>>>> Okay, so why isn't this in the design SIG wikipage yet? :)
>>>
>>> Finish one thing before starting the other? I don't know, up to
>>> Jannis. I think we still need some deeper thoughts how to integrate
>>> this in thunar before focusing on the looks, although the discussion
>>> can already be started.
>>
>> I added this on the proposed projects.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This would mean removing a bunch of the old looking themes and include
>>>>>> some new; I'm proposing to include the Shimmer themes, which have had
>>>>>> good feedback when used as Xubuntu default themes.
>>>>>
>>>>> The only themes are a bunch of them in the gtk engine, but for example
>>>>> the shimmer themes depend on the murrine engine, not a dependency we
>>>>> want for the core.
>>>>
>>>> Right, I didn't consider that.
>>>>>
>>>>> That doesn't mean there is room for improvement, but the Xfce core
>>>>> doesn't need to become a complete xunbuntu layout as well.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, I agree. The idea is not to make the core Xubuntu layout, but
>>>> provide the user some theme choices which they really can consider
>>>> using.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not saying this because I think the Shimmer themes are better than
>>>> anything else but because the default themes in Xfce right now are quite
>>>> ugly, and I couldn't really use those ever. And I think many people
>>>> think the same.
>>>
>>> I agree. I never use the Xfce themes as well, in fact, the whole thing
>>> will get better when we switch to gtk3, but that not on the target
>>> list of 4.10, so we need a "decent" mid solution for 4.10, without
>>> putting new stuff in the Xfce core packages.
>>
>> I hope it will get better. Anyway, whatever comes around, I'm sure we'll
>> support GTK3 as soon as possible with the Shimmer themes, so the
>> solution doesn't need to look completely temporary for the users, since
>> they'll see the same themes even when GTK3 jumps in.
>>>>
>>>> There is probably quite little that the design SIG can do about this, if
>>>> there is no consensus across the Xfce developers. I think the question
>>>> simply is if the Xfce developer team wants Xfce core to be as small as
>>>> possible and strip all dependencies, or, are they willing to add a
>>>> rather small dependency to be able to ship themes that bring Xfce looks
>>>> closer to what is objectively considered good-looking in 2011.
>>>
>>> Well a possibility is to make shimmer-releases on xfce.org (dig up
>>> xfce4-themes?) and make an advise to distros to include this package
>>> in the xfce-group of their distro (and that package will depend on
>>> murrine). That's more or less the same as we do now with the
>>> gtk-xfce-engine, but that includes both themes and the engine.
>>
>> That sounds fine. Distro packagers, how does this sound for you?
>
> uhh, add some newlines in here, lol, this is becoming unreadable :)
>
> For both distro's I work with: please consider sticking to one default
> theme. More choice for the user, fine. More choice for the packager: no fun,
> now you make me choose :/

I have to agree here, the themes package is nice, and maybe a murrine
based theme package could be shipable, but I personally loved the 4.8
default theme and still use it. I may have changed by gtk theme a bit
but overall its great. I think sticking to a sane default without
bringing in extra dependancies.

On option would be to make a theme editor/designer such as what is
available with gnome, again as an optional package but it would be
nice to allow users to tweak things as they like with more ease.

Just keep the packager and maintainer in mind, the simpler their job
is the more they can focus on making their respective distro's users
happy with their choice of xfce.