panel item remove confirmation

[Erik Harrison]

On 10/18/05, Brian J. Tarricone <bjt23 at cornell.edu> wrote:
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> Erik Harrison wrote:
>
> > Wow. This thread is long already. But since I was called on . . .
> >
> > After having thought about it, my real answer is that the whole option
> > of removing an item via the right click menu is the wrong idea. Which
> > is probably a contentious point, so I'll justify it.
>
> Sure, I'll buy that.
>

If only more engieneers were like you Brian . . .

> > Working from the question about whether or not there should be a
> > confirmation dialog for plugin removal, I got this:
> >
> > Arguments for the dialog:
> > 1) Plugin preferences are per instance, and as such removing a plugin
> > is more than just inconvenience, it can constitute real data loss.
> >
> > 2) Removing plugins while right clicking is a real and distinct
> > possibility, especially when the system tray and the tasklist make it
> > common to right click on a plugin for specific functionality - a few
> > pixels off, and there goes your taskbar.
>
> Right, agree.
>
> > Arguments against:
> > 1) It's a mild inconviniece. Which is a real issue, as most software's
> > major UI flaw is the death of the thousand cuts
> > 2) Teaching users to click "Okay" to confirm lots of dialogs teaches
> > users not to read dialogs, and thus accidentally removing your entire
> > bleeding panel is a very real possibility.
>
> Again, agree, but I feel like this is the lesser evil.  IMHO and all
> that, anyway.

Same here, but I hate lesser evils. I prefer the greater good. Hence
trying to bypass the right click remove.

>
> > So, looking at these points, and playing with the panel myself, it's
> > pretty obvious that the culprit is the damn right click menu on the
> > panel itself.
> >
> > 1) It has two Remove items, whose action is predicted by where it is in the menu
> > 2) Ditto for properties
> > 3) "Manage Panel Items" is a bit of a bastard child. It's global to
> > managing the panels state, but could be construed to deal with
> > managing a given item's preferences as well. And since it's the most
> > visually distinct item in the list (Three Capital Letters, longest,
> > middle of the menu), your eye goes straight to it. This has resulted
> > in this kind of behaviour
>
> I'm mentally debating whether or not I think  it's worth getting rid of
> two menu items (New Panel and Remove [panel]) at the expense of making
> Manage Panel Items more complicated (which I think is a nice cool simple
> UI).  Now, Manage Panel Items can also handle removal of items, but it's
> not quite intuitive.  I know someone already didn't realised that the
> panel items were draggable and had no idea how to rearrange them.  I'm
> sure there are some people who still don't know that you can drag panel
> items back to the dialog to remove them, and the reverse for adding them.
>

Grrrr. Me too. It's a balance.

> Although... why not take the Firefox toolbar editor model all the way?
>
> 1.  Change "Manage Panel Items" to "Customize..."
> 2.  Add text "You can add or remove items by dragging to or from the
> panels" to the top of the panel item dialog (it already says something
> similar to this).
> 3.  Ditch the list idea.  Make each item in the dialog an icon with just
> its name under it.  The description can go in a tooltip.
> 4.  Each icon should be a screenshot of the actual plugin while it's in
> the panel, not some generic icon used to represent it.
> 5.  Change the mouse cursor to the grippy hand thing.
>
> Now, this "fixes" the problem of the Remove (plugin) menu item: you
> don't need it anymore, and hopefully people won't be asking "yearrrrgh!
>  how do I remove panel items!?!?!".  Now we just have a single "Remove
> Panel" menu item (or just "Remove", under the "Panel" section, whichever
> is preferred).
>
> Are there any a11y problems with this design?  I can't imagine Firefox
> would have adopted it if there were, though...
>

My concern as well.

The problem with the firefox toolbar is that it can't be keyboarded very well.

> > Me: "Brain, would you figure out how to remove this panel plugin for
> > me, plzkthk"
> > Brain: "Sure. Let's right click, that usually does that kind of thing,
> > hmm, look at that Manage Panel Items, bingo!"
> > Me: "Uh, brain, I think that's just for adding panel items"
> > Brain: "Right! Uhhhh, well what's close to it *Scans down* Remove!"
> > Me: "Well done brain! *Click*"
> > Panel: "Hahaha! You're trying to remove the panel! Click canel or
> > exit, but due to a bug they do the same thing! *Evil laugh*"
> > Me: "Stupid brain!"
>
> *giggle*
>
> > There has been some serious investment in trying to "fix" the right
> > click menu for the panel. ALL of it has centered around trying to
> > shoehorn plugin specific functionality and panel specific
> > functionality in the same menu, with stuff that is both (Like "Manage
> > panel items") needing a really long name to make clear what it does.
> >
> > Which is just too much damn work for an action that should generally
> > be uncommon. The "manage" dialog already handles removing through a
> > nicely usable DND interface, which conviniently is just about
> > impossible to fsck up and accidentally remove a plugin.
>
> Yes, exactly... See above ^_^.  My only initial gripe with this is that
> people don't know that you can use DnD.

Which I think that copying the firefox toolbar UI is a good move. It's
a nice solved problem, that many of our target users already
understand.

As I recall, very very early talk by Jasper when the new toolbar was
barely a glint in his eye mentioned the firefox and Terminal toolbars
directly.

>
> > Then you can remove the dummy items in the menu for organization. Move
> > "<ITEM> Preferences" down to the bottom of the menu, which is the most
> > common menu choice, and for 90% of panel configs means it ought to be
> > at the bottom.
> >
> > Panel Properties
> > Remove This Panel
> > Add New Panel
> > Manage Panel Items
> > Tasklist Properties
> >
> > And extra menu items can go underneath, since if the plugin adds
> > items, they are likely to be the most wanted options, and it nicely
> > segments the menu into two sections without the need for labels.
>
> I think you're forgetting one kinda important bit: not everyone has
> their panel on the bottom of the screen.  When you right click a
> screen-top panel, the closest item to the mouse pointer is the one at
> the top of the menu.

That's why I said 90% of configs, if screenshots are any basis (and
without the facilities for a real testing lab, it's all I got. Though
if I can convince one of the area schools to let me borrow the
computer lab, I might be able to do some *real* testing with a live
CD).

>
> > I feel like this is much more usuable, and dodges the workaround that
> > a confirmation dialog causes.
> >
> > If this was all Too Much Information - blame Brian. He asked for it.
>
> And this is exactly what I wanted; thanks.

At your service

>
>         -brian
>
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--
Erik

"If Beethoven had been killed in a plane crash at the age of 22, it
would have changed the history of music... and of aviation."