panel item remove confirmation

Tue Oct 18 05:58:51 CEST 2005

On 10/17/05, Brian J. Tarricone <bjt23 at cornell.edu> wrote:
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> Fabian Nowak wrote:
> > Am Sonntag, den 16.10.2005, 23:47 -0700 schrieb Brian J. Tarricone:
> >>
> >>Jasper,
> >>
> >>I'd strongly suggest putting back the "Are you sure?" dialog when
> >>removing a plugin.  In the past week I've removed plugins accidentally
> >>several times by missing the Properties item and hitting Remove by accident.
> >
> >
> > the point is that you will also click on the ok button in this dialog if
> > you accidentally clicked onto "remove panel", just because of being used
> > to this dialog.
>
> That's certainly your opinion, but I don't think so.  If I click
> something by accident, I usually realise it instantly as I click on it.
>  Without the dialog, it's too late; with the dialog, I can cancel my
> mistaken action.
>
> > this is what happened already several times to me and
> > AFAIK jasper, too.
> > having the dialog removed already prevented me two times from removing
> > the panel accidentaly as the dialog comes unexpected and therefor i read
> > it.
>
> This really doesn't make sense to me.  It sounds like you're just being
> too hasty.
>
> > but restoring one's old panel is much more work than restoring a simple
> > plugin, since sensors-plugin is configured in 15-30 seconds and even the
> > mailwatch-plugin is so straight forward that you won't probably take
> > more than 2 minutes for 4 accounts, at least that's what it took me.
>
> Um, and you think 2 minutes is an acceptable amount of time to recover
> from a clear dataloss scenario?  I don't.  And two minutes is pretty
> optimistic, especially if you want to set multiple IMAP new mail folders
> on multiple accounts, as is the case with me.
>
> > what about having a panel option "show remove confirmation on plugin
> > removal" which might be enabled by default, thus enabling me and perhaps
> > many others to not have this dialog.
>
> Do you *really* add and remove plugins from the panel so often that a
> dialog is that annoying?  If so, I'm sure you're in the small minority.
>  A pref here is bloat.  IMO the dialog should come back and there should
> be no pref for it.
>
> Perhaps someone with some actual HCI design credentials would like to
> weigh in on this issue (Erik, I'm looking at you).

Wow. This thread is long already. But since I was called on . . .

After having thought about it, my real answer is that the whole option
of removing an item via the right click menu is the wrong idea. Which
is probably a contentious point, so I'll justify it.

Working from the question about whether or not there should be a
confirmation dialog for plugin removal, I got this:

Arguments for the dialog:
1) Plugin preferences are per instance, and as such removing a plugin
is more than just inconvenience, it can constitute real data loss.

2) Removing plugins while right clicking is a real and distinct
possibility, especially when the system tray and the tasklist make it
common to right click on a plugin for specific functionality - a few
pixels off, and there goes your taskbar.

Arguments against:
1) It's a mild inconviniece. Which is a real issue, as most software's
major UI flaw is the death of the thousand cuts
2) Teaching users to click "Okay" to confirm lots of dialogs teaches
users not to read dialogs, and thus accidentally removing your entire
bleeding panel is a very real possibility.

So, looking at these points, and playing with the panel myself, it's
pretty obvious that the culprit is the damn right click menu on the
panel itself.

1) It has two Remove items, whose action is predicted by where it is in the menu
2) Ditto for properties
3) "Manage Panel Items" is a bit of a bastard child. It's global to
managing the panels state, but could be construed to deal with
managing a given item's preferences as well. And since it's the most
visually distinct item in the list (Three Capital Letters, longest,
middle of the menu), your eye goes straight to it. This has resulted
in this kind of behaviour

Me: "Brain, would you figure out how to remove this panel plugin for
me, plzkthk"
Brain: "Sure. Let's right click, that usually does that kind of thing,
hmm, look at that Manage Panel Items, bingo!"
Me: "Uh, brain, I think that's just for adding panel items"
Brain: "Right! Uhhhh, well what's close to it *Scans down* Remove!"
Me: "Well done brain! *Click*"
Panel: "Hahaha! You're trying to remove the panel! Click canel or
exit, but due to a bug they do the same thing! *Evil laugh*"
Me: "Stupid brain!"

There has been some serious investment in trying to "fix" the right
click menu for the panel. ALL of it has centered around trying to
shoehorn plugin specific functionality and panel specific
functionality in the same menu, with stuff that is both (Like "Manage
panel items") needing a really long name to make clear what it does.

Which is just too much damn work for an action that should generally
be uncommon. The "manage" dialog already handles removing through a
nicely usable DND interface, which conviniently is just about
impossible to fsck up and accidentally remove a plugin.

Then you can remove the dummy items in the menu for organization. Move
"<ITEM> Preferences" down to the bottom of the menu, which is the most
common menu choice, and for 90% of panel configs means it ought to be
at the bottom.

Panel Properties
Remove This Panel
Add New Panel
Manage Panel Items
Tasklist Properties

And extra menu items can go underneath, since if the plugin adds
items, they are likely to be the most wanted options, and it nicely
segments the menu into two sections without the need for labels.

I feel like this is much more usuable, and dodges the workaround that
a confirmation dialog causes.

If this was all Too Much Information - blame Brian. He asked for it.

PS - In the course of thinking this thing out, I kept right clicking
on the panel to remind myself exactly how it works now. The more I did
this I became more confused - I removed my panel three times trying to
remove panel plugins.

PPS - The panel has some more context menu issues with the the
handles. But that's a can of worms for a different thread.

PPPS - Jasper, I love the panel. Don't let my public thinking the UI
out lead you to believe otherwise.
>
>         -brian
>
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--
Erik

"If Beethoven had been killed in a plane crash at the age of 22, it
would have changed the history of music... and of aviation."