is Xfce getting too bloated ?

[Brian J. Tarricone]

On 10/14/04 15:15, purslow at sympatico.ca wrote:
> the point i really want(ed) to make is not so much that Xfce has got slower
> -- though it has -- , but that KDE has got a lot faster in starting up.
> there is very little difference in start-up time between KDE 3.3.0
> before it starts applications (there's a bar & percent chart for it all)
> & Xfce 4.0.6 without the session manager, 4.2 being about the same
> or perhaps a bit slower due to the menu configuration.
> 
> i can't understand why others want to make an issue of KDE services,
> which they describe as an extra when starting Xfce.

because it is an "extra".  KDE services take time to load - quite a bit of
time.  blaming xfce for kdeinit's start time doesn't make sense.

> if you use the session manager -- after all, an important addition to 4.2 --
> & you start a normal range of applications,
> you are very likely to start some KDE items, which are among the best.

that's a matter of opinion, one that i do not share.  i personally don't run
any KDE apps at all.  again, blaming xfce for the slow startup time of KDE
apps doesn't makes sense.

> Xfce does not have a terminal -- really, it's too primitive to use -- 
> nor a browser nor games, nor hopefully will it try to add such things
> (ok maybe a terminal, if it ever gets fully worked out).

4.4 should have a terminal, but we have no desire to implement a browser.
hell, even KDE is backpedaling a bit, and is planning on using gecko in
konqueror in the future.

> again, the issue is not how fast Xfce 4.2 is with or without session-managing,
> but how much faster it is than its principal competitor, ie hardly at all.

it's much faster, if you stay away from KDE apps, since this involves loading
large portions of KDE.  period.

> > Another problem with the menu parsing.
> > We are aware of the problem, but the standard is not simple.
> > Brian said that he wants to rewrite part of the menu stuff,
> > but we are in the beta release cycle,
> > so it's not a good time for a rewrite now.
> > Fortunately, there is the cache that dramatically improved things,
> > and you can disable the menu from xfdesktop settings.
> 
> if i were to drop the desktop menu as well as session management,
> there would be almost nothing to be gained by using 4.2 rather than 4.0.6 .
> in fact, i probably have little daily use for the menu
> -- all the applications i regularly use are in launchers --
> & it's about as fast to start things by hand without the manager.

ok, then what is your complaint?  simply remove the autogenerated include
from the menu (trivial to do with JF's menu editor), and the startup time
should go back to something similar to 4.0.x.  or just disable the menu
entirely.  at any rate, with the menu cached, even the autogenerated menu
should be about as fast as 4.0.x with a menu of similar size.  of course,
if you install/uninstall something that changes one of the .desktop 
directories, it will need to regenerate itself (though it'll of course
cache the result of this).

	-brian