Xfce Digest, Vol 191, Issue 7

Sean Davis sean at bluesabre.org
Wed Oct 23 00:22:01 CEST 2019

On Tue, Oct 22, 2019, at 1:19 PM, Andrzej wrote:
> On 22/10/2019 12:45, Sean Davis wrote:
>> I guess it's also critically important to make this distinction. We are going for scenario #2.
>> Scenario 2: Full CSD, not full HeaderBar (selected for 4.16)

> If you really want work on that, fine, but as a minimum please make it a run-time option and make sure the non-CSD variant always works. Otherwise, if you really must follow through, rename/fork the applications and libraries so that original can be maintained and developed further under their current names and in their current repositories. We don't want to end up with another Gnome/Mate mess.

Another feature of the toolkit CSD decorations implementation is that GTK_CSD=0 just works. The last thing we want is any divide where Xfce is forked and maintained separately.

> But, why? Why break established X11 patterns for the sake of some visual candy? Window managers are a central part of X11 user experience. Only recently my organization has deployed Xfce on user machines because the hits a good balance between being standards compliant and feature rich. From the usability point of view CSD have a negative value.

It's not about the visual eye candy. There are actual benefits we gain from CSD (as I mentioned before), and the window manager is still at work when using the CSD windows. Right-click on the titlebar/header and Xfwm responds with the same window management controls. Dragging, resizing, corner-tiling... this is Xfwm still doing the heavy lifting... In Xfce, we get the benefits of both when an application is using the CSD decorations.

> I feel bad complaining about it because I haven't worked on Xfce for years now, but if I don't do it, our user will. I disagree with your estimate of the scale of the issue - being usability focused and respectful of user preferences became our key feature since Gnome3.

I don't disagree with you, but I also don't think there's any changes in this regard. We're still usability focused, highly configurable, and user-first. I think everybody still has a sour taste from the GNOME 3 CSD implementation, where features were seemingly dropped to make headerbars work. We're doing the opposite: taking advantage of the new features and making them work for Xfce.

> Best regards,

> Andrzej


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