Removing decorations from a window

[Erik Harrison]

On 8/22/05, Heinrich Rebehn <rebehn at ant.uni-bremen.de> wrote:
> Brian J. Tarricone wrote:
> > Chris Green wrote:
> >
> >>>Further to my previous enquiry about removing decorations from a
> >>>window, I seem to be between two opposing camps arguing about how this
> >>>should be done but with neither camp giving me the tools to do it!
> >>>
> >>>Since the decorations are created (and customised) by the Window
> >>>Manager it seems to me reasonable that the Window Manager should offer
> >>>options which allow one to say that certain windows should have no
> >>>decorations.  However the xfce Window manager doesn't seem to offer
> >>>this possibility.
> >
> >
> > What seems reasonable to you may not seem reasonable to others...  IMO,
> > the WM should do what apps tell it to do, and offer minimal, if any,
> > "override" functionality.
> 
> I have to object at this point. Any software should do what the *user*
> tells it to do, and if for some reason i do not want a decoration, i
> want a tool to suppress it, be it devilspie or a capable wm.

If my employer will pardon me weighing in while on the clock . . .

I'd love it if we had mind reading software that did exactly what I
wanted it to do. However, as both of us no, this isn't possible, yet.

So, you know what I do? I pick software whose goals are most in line
with the work I need to get done. Xfce's goals are to be fast, stable,
and usable. Having the window manager override what an application
requests is contrary to these goals. Since what I want from my desktop
is speed, stability, and usability, I'm with Xfwm's decision to not
put special casing code in the desktop.

There exist tools to override the application's request. Use them if
you like. Using them is faster, more stable, and more usable than
putting such functionality in the window manager. Else, you can use a
WM whose primary goals are not Xfce's, like sawfish, whose primary
goal is power through a small extensible core. Laudable goals, just
not mine.


 After all
> this is easier for me than to edit the app's source.
> And, since i definately refuse to edit xml config files by hand, i keep
> recommending sawfish wm.
> 
Excellent. Sawfish is a good window manager.


> --Heinrich
> >
> >
> >>>So I go to the other end and look at the options in Xlib and there all
> >>>I find is that, since the decorations are created by the Window
> >>>Manager it's non-portable to have functions to remove the decorations
> >>>from the client end.
> >>>
> >>>Grrrr!
> >
> >
> > Not sure what you're looking at, but it's probably very old: most modern
> > WMs will follow the spec and pay attention to WM hints.  Xfwm4 will, at
> > least.
> >
> >
> >>>It's surely possible because some of the xfce utilities don't have
> >>>decorations, maybe I'll end up having to look at the source code for
> >>>them but I fear they go through GTK etc. and I want the basic Xlib
> >>>functions to get a window without decorations.
> >
> >
> > Well, GTK uses doesn't do anything GTK-specific to remove window
> > decorations.  It's uses Xlib as its backend, y'know.  I suggest you
> > implement the Xlib way in your app and see if it works, rather than just
> > ranting and whining here.  This isn't an Xlib programming help ML, after
> > all.  If you still can't figure it out, grab the GTK source and look at
> > how GTK does it (hint: start at gtk_window_set_decorated()).
> >
> >
> >>>The 'right' solution to my mind is that it should be configurable in
> >>>xfwm, is this do-able?
> >
> >
> > Doable, sure, but unlikely to be accepted as a patch, unless Olivier has
> > a change of heart...
> >
> >       -brian
> >
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-- 
"This brings me back to a time where I had no worries. 
All I needed to do was watch Perfect Strangers."
-Erik