[Xfce-bugs] [Bug 5934] Xfce system-wide settings

bugzilla-daemon at xfce.org bugzilla-daemon at xfce.org
Sun Nov 1 02:53:54 CET 2009


--- Comment #7 from KitchM <tech at frontrowcomputer.com> 2009-11-01 01:53:53 UTC ---
Janis - Thanks for the response.  Let me first state that your statement
regarding the panel "bug" not having to do with this is clearly a
misunderstanding of what I'm pointing out.  The overall issue remains; the user
doesn't know and couldn't care less where the settings are failing, but the
fact remains that they are.  My suggestion about a DE feature request, or
enhancement as Xfce calls it, is to group all settings into one place (as they
should be) and to make sure that they cannot be changed without conscious user
input.  That such is attempted at being done now in some piecemeal way is a
poor excuse for doing it correctly, and certainly not the right way to design
software.  Of that there can be no argument.  Besides, it ain't working!

I know that there does not have to be many separate settings applets simply
because you modularize.  That is your misunderstanding of the options in
programming.  The proper way to handle that problem is to make the central
settings manager note when other modules are added into the DE and make their
settings available in that one centralized interface.  I would have thought
that programmers knew that, so you can imagine my surprise at your claims.

(By the way, in watching your video, I thought it was to demonstrate the errors
you found in the system.  I must say that I am at a loss as to the point you
are trying to make with your reference.  It doesn't seem to apply to my

If things belong to different applications, as you assert, then there should be
a clear explanation why that is.  That way, and only that way, will the user be
able to give thoughtful feedback to the coders.  (My experience says that such
is not the case, but I am willing to consider your explanation if it becomes

Believe me, the way to find out if someone is being arrogant or not is to try
them and find out.  That is the only sure way.  I have found that most people
don't like to have their shortcomings opened up to public scrutiny, and that is
why there is such misleading  and negative argument, and such fierce defense of
buggy software.   As they say, the proof is in the pudding.  Besides, free help
is good.  So try me already.

What I was referring to was the obvious mistake in thinking what I described
above; that the first mistake was modularizing the components without any way
to bring them together in one place.  That was a flaw from the beginning, and
it is perpetuated all along each and every upgrade without ever addressing it. 
Such a simple, but damning, oversight, and evidence in and of itself.  (By the
way, if you are a fine software developer, why are you defending this poor
software design.  It is clear that good leadership is needed here, and that is
what a director does.  I still stand ready and available to help you and other
designers/developers get the job done correctly.  All you've got to do is ask.)

What appears to be unclear to you is that long term evolution versus immediate
perfection are not the only options here.  The better one would have been to
speak with an expert on this issue and made a better development map from the
beginning.  While I understand your desire not to be bothered with other
peoples' viewpoints, I still don't understand why they overlooked that idea,
and no one has explained it yet.  Can you?

I am not sure as to why you solicit support for your negative view, but I can
imagine.  I could say something similar, such as "Idiocy anyone?".  You know,
instead of being critical, you might have started with a better attitude. 
Maybe introducing yourself and stating who the heck "we" are.  Second, don't
try to tell a user who first spent a half hour trying to find the best way to
make a suggestion that he did it wrong.  You simply contradict the Xfce web
site direction.  Third, don't tell reporters to report somewhere else without
explaining why that is preferred rather than the specified place.  Fourth,
clearly define what you mean by "mockups and concepts" and why the actual
coders would have it in that particular format.  Fifth, never tell someone to
go to a mailing list when there are forums and bug reporting web sites for that
very purpose.  If the programmers can't use their own web site, the problem
goes much deeper than I imagined.

If you have something to add to support your position regarding my feature
request (and only that), then I will listen.  If not, stay the heck away from
my report.  Thank you.

Brian, your two cents worth wasn't.  I can't imagine how anyone can justify
such a narrow-minded and ignorant opinion as you have made.  Except perhaps in
their own mind.

Please note these facts:
1. You started out with an error, and you continue the practice.
2. I went out of my way to follow the direction given to users as to the
preferred way to make feature requests.  I didn't have to, but out of a desire
to improve that which I have already publicly stated as being an excellent
start to a great DE, I went to the trouble to clearly document the issue in the
hopes that someone would care enough to fix the flaw.
3. I am not trying to impress with my reputation.  That is meaningless.  You
should have already known that one can determine anything that way.  Didn't you
know that?
4. I am offering my services as (as I often do), at no charge and in the spirit
of open source software design, to help with the project and simply stating, as
anyone does when requesting a position, that I feel competent in doing so. 
Besides, you're the person who started that dialog.  That is yet another place
you should not have commented.
5. Only your misunderstanding states that I don't seem to have humility and
respect for my peers.  You are wrong there as well.  And please note, you are
not my peer.  I actually do know of that which I speak.
6. It was very telling that after you made your first mistake you felt it
necessary to cast dispersions on someone else.  Funny, that wasn't in your
first thoughtless submission.
7. By the way, I didn't use the wrong component. First, you don't know why I
chose what I did.  Second, you failed to document the difference.
8. If you had anything to do with the software flaws I've documented, it
explains alot.

You must be ecstatic now, knowing how wrong you are.  From now on, please butt
out of my report.

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