<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 TRANSITIONAL//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; CHARSET=UTF-8">
<META NAME="GENERATOR" CONTENT="GtkHTML/4.6.6">
</HEAD>
<BODY>
Hi Ricardo,<BR>
<BR>
what I had in mind were pure cosmetic enhancements, not something that would limit users in customizing their desktop. We don't want another Gnome fork, but at the same time design could be improved, a lot.<BR>
<BR>
On Fri, 2015-08-07 at 22:25 -0300, Ricardo Biehl wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>
<PRE>
Hello Patrik, I understood what you are saying and I agree with it,
but there is an aspect that need to be respected;
this aspect is the fact that users should have the liberty to do what
they want with the 'DE' and 'DE' ought respect
it with various options to customize it. Nothing more.
Big hug.
2015-07-25 7:57 GMT-03:00 Patrik Bubák <<A HREF="mailto:bubapa@privacyrequired.com">bubapa@privacyrequired.com</A>>:
<FONT COLOR="#737373">></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#737373">> Hello,</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#737373">></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#737373">> I joined the mailing list to propose ways to improve the visual experience of Xfce by default and to help create standardized guidelines for themers to abide to.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#737373">></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#737373">> There is always a need for a good looking desktop (just look at Mac OSX and you'll get the point of why it sells despite its weaknesses), which is why many (visually) prefer some other options like Pantheon, Gnome, MATE, Cinnamon, even Unity for that matter, or KDE. Now I'm not going to give you charts, but it's a fact that visually Xfce is one of the least popular desktops, although I am aware it was created for speed and functionality.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#737373">></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#737373">> All except KDE have one thing in common - Gnome, due to its extensibility, making it a perfect base for forks. The Gnome team puts a great deal of effort into designing their own applications and it works. Not just for functionality, but great focus lies in design, which Gnome is perfectly aware of, and just like sex sells in commercials with women, design is the next thing that sells most. You see it everywhere. Everything around you is design in some form.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#737373">></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#737373">> While we know, that Gnome is not the most practical of desktops and from my own experience I dare to say it has been oversimplified in many ways when it goes against its philosophy of "getting things out of the way", for me it often gets in the way of doing things.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#737373">></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#737373">> There are some elements that it has that the simple mind seeks - aesthetics - hidden in simple details, which Xfce does not, and for a designer that's like a needle in the eye.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#737373">></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#737373">> The most common reason why many shun Xfce I met with in my 5 years of Linux is because it:</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#737373">></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#737373">> - lacks standardized Human Interface Guidelines (HIG)</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#737373">> - is generally visually unappealing (base themes are a nay)</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#737373">></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#737373">> Now, you may think what I talked about here is very subjective. Believe me it's not, and those perceptive enough would know the difference, hearing it from everyone, everywhere. There's always something about Xfce that drives people away in favour of clunkier desktops like Gnome.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#737373">></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#737373">> For a start I would propose to focus on the following few things:</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#737373">></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#737373">> - the notification area/tray/whatever you call it, make the space between icons breathable, even, make icons uniform in size (currently it's pretty much chaos, one icon looks bigger, other one smaller, one takes more space, the other one less and so on. Just look at the Gnome panel or Pantheon desktop and you'll know what I'm talking about.) While some (in particular those who don't even need a GUI and terminal suffices) would argue that these are meaningless changes, the general audience, even though not designers, pays attention to details and somewhere deep down feel something's not right. Call it gut instinct, a bad feeling, or an awakening aesthetic "touch", regardless, it's there.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#737373">> - allow for fixed positions in centres of panels and windows. (Ever felt like you want to centre some things on your desktop but can't get them quite in the position you want? Again, a minor detail that counts.)</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#737373">> - the window buttons plug-in of the panel displays icons a lot smaller than that of the start menu e.g. I would propose making all icons of a fixed size, regardless are those shortcuts, or plug-ins.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#737373">></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#737373">> As you can see I'm not suggesting to add Compiz or anything like that, that would take away the speed or functionality of the desktop. I am merely proposing cosmetic adjustments.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#737373">></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#737373">> While I recognize the effort of some communities like Xubuntu and Shimmer Project to whom I am thankful for the effort they have put in in beautifying the Xfce desktop and making it more appealing for general audiences, I don't know the standing at its base. I've used some vanilla Xfce flavours offered by many distributions and the base (default Xfce4) artwork was... well...</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#737373">></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#737373">> So my question is whether there is interest in making the DE more visually appealing, or you just want to continue with your current paradigm.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#737373">></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#737373">> I am already a part of the Ubuntu GNOME project where I already made some contributions, but the working pace is slow, as usual, we all are busy with real lives.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#737373">></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#737373">> While I cannot code Gtk+ themes (need to find the time to learn that), I could still be of help by coordinating the visualization of the desktop.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#737373">></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#737373">> Bear in mind, that the devil's in the details.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#737373">></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#737373">> Cheers!</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#737373">></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#737373">> --</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#737373">> Patrik Bubák</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#737373">> Ubuntu GNOME Artwork team | Behance.net</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#737373">></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#737373">> Sent using Evolution</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#737373">></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#737373">> Nothing ruins creativity like too many voices weighing in. We call it the Ice Cream Principle. Tell 10 people to go get ice cream with one condition: they all have to agree on one flavour. That flavour is going to be chocolate or vanilla every time. Groups of people don't agree on what's cool or interesting, they agree on what's easy to agree on.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#737373">></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#737373">></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#737373">> _______________________________________________</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#737373">> Xfce4-dev mailing list</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#737373">> <A HREF="mailto:Xfce4-dev@xfce.org">Xfce4-dev@xfce.org</A></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#737373">> <A HREF="https://mail.xfce.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce4-dev">https://mail.xfce.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce4-dev</A></FONT>
</PRE>
</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR>
<TABLE CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="0" WIDTH="100%">
<TR>
<TD>
-- <BR>
<FONT SIZE="1">Sent using <A HREF="https://wiki.gnome.org/Apps/Evolution/">Evolution</A> from <A HREF="http://ubuntu.com/desktop">Ubuntu</A></FONT><BR>
<BR>
<FONT SIZE="1">Nothing ruins creativity like too many voices weighing in. We call it the </FONT><I><FONT SIZE="1">Ice Cream Principle</FONT></I><FONT SIZE="1">. Tell 10 people to go get ice cream with one condition: they all have to agree on one flavour. That flavour is going to be chocolate or vanilla every time. </FONT><FONT SIZE="1"><FONT COLOR="#008000">Groups of people don't agree on what's cool or interesting, they agree on what's easy to agree on.</FONT></FONT>
</TD>
</TR>
</TABLE>
</BODY>
</HTML>