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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Wow, that was a lot of feedback, I'll
answer like in a talk, so notice that I changed my mind during the
answers :)<br>
<br>
On 03/09/2015 04:43 AM, Alex wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:54FD4F0F.8010203@gmx.de" type="cite">
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">I dont know much about these plugins,
however I wonder how the package "orage" fits in here, which I
currently use on xfce ? Does it have any features which are not
available in "daytime" and "clock" ?<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
I'm aware of Orage's plugin, but I guess we should address it later.<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 03/09/2015 05:05 AM, Nick Schermer
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CACjEWJk9L+YjhkRQHan_a5igpz3Km_976A=DhZ-4feDdvNL7nA@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">I know the color only works with the digital+span format, but are we
not over engineering [bloat] something stupid as a clock?</pre>
</blockquote>
<strike>Maybe, the users should decide if this is useful or not(just
like the splasher).</strike><strike><br>
</strike><strike>So the coloring feature can be postponed for after
the merge.</strike><br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CACjEWJk9L+YjhkRQHan_a5igpz3Km_976A=DhZ-4feDdvNL7nA@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Bug 9785 is the wrong approach. For some time we tried to fix unneeded
wake-up events and now we're undoing that? Auke will be pissed ;)
</pre>
</blockquote>
<strike>Another point we should handle after the merge.</strike><br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 03/09/2015 05:37 AM, Steve
Dodier-Lazaro wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAKNG1J4mfwqDXFbXz5v3hBd4GB+QBP37W3L5KExf+_1YrE=R2A@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>To me the whole "set your font / font colour" approach
seems like "we don't read your GTK+ theme properly". I can't
think of a time when I needed to change my clock font
(albeit I'll admit to it being more useful for datetime).<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Some users are requesting this, but at least in my case is for the
sake of customization(which is a strength of Xfce).<br>
I'm using a transparent panel about 30% visible, and depending of
the wallpaper the clock/datetime is barely readable while everything
else is ok. I know, I can handle that by tweaking the theme files,
but that's somewhat laborious and the majority of the users can't do
that.<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAKNG1J4mfwqDXFbXz5v3hBd4GB+QBP37W3L5KExf+_1YrE=R2A@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>André, try and get in touch with the Design SIG people
for the settings UI. I can't work on any FOSS until the 15th
but Simon might be able to help?<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Ok, I'll try to hang around the IRC during the week.<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAKNG1J4mfwqDXFbXz5v3hBd4GB+QBP37W3L5KExf+_1YrE=R2A@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Nick, I agree my approach to fixing this bug is quite
ugly... The patch is available for those who're bothered,
though.<br>
<br>
</div>
XFPM maintainers, can XFPM reliably (e.g. also on *BSD) inform
processes that the computer has been resumed? That'd allow
getting the information through without causing 59 interrupts
like my solution?<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
Currently is there anything being broadcast by DBus when the system
resumes?<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 03/09/2015 05:38 AM, Simon Steinbeiß
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:20150309093838.78553d68@melanzane" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">WRT color I agree with Nick, that's over the top and sucks for themers. For the heavy-duty customizers doing that in the theme is good enough. Same goes for the font to some extent. We can even put instructions on how to achieve that in the wiki.
With Gtk3 this will be even easier, just put a block like this in your gtk-widgets.css (or even your ~/.config/gtk-3.0/gtk.css)
#xfce4-clock {
background-color: #foo;
color: #foo;
}</pre>
</blockquote>
You've made your point, but I'm not convinced *yet* that we should
drop this feature that is easy to use and IMHO doesn't add all that
complexity to the code.<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 03/09/2015 06:11 AM, Andrzej wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:54FD63CE.5000604@gmail.com" type="cite">If you
want to reduce maintenance burden, drop binary, fuzzy and LCD.
They are all there only mostly "because we can" and IMHO are just
bloat. <br>
</blockquote>
I could, but I wouldn't. I'm just planning to bring to clock what
datetime does that clock doesn't, so we can ditch datetime.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:54FD63CE.5000604@gmail.com" type="cite">Try
the following custom formats: <br>
<br>
%a, %d/%m%n<b>%H:%M</b> <br>
<small>DE: %H:%M (%a)</small> <br>
<br>
More details about formatting commands: <br>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://developer.gnome.org/pango/stable/PangoMarkupFormat.html">https://developer.gnome.org/pango/stable/PangoMarkupFormat.html</a> <br>
<br>
Some features (e.g. font_face) don't seem to work here but overall
the capabilities are pretty good.
</blockquote>
This is very interesting. Now we have something that is easy enough
for users and brings to table what only datetime does for free. Font
family is actually working here.<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 03/09/2015 06:39 AM, Harald Judt
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:54FD6A54.1070603@gmx.at" type="cite">
Using custom time/date configurations is where the datetime plugin
shines, and having a simple calendar is very convenient too. These
features are the main reasons I prefer this plugin to the built-in
panel
clock module.
</blockquote>
Using the tip provided by Andrzej you can archive the same
configurations as you do in datetime. Even if the date is presented
first and then time or vice verse by using '%n'. It's a bit more
hacky, but far from hard, I'd say that users that might bother to
tweak the clock would end up enjoying this "programming" :)<br>
What do you mean by a simple calendar? Clock has exactly the same
calendar of datetime, I guess it's been a while since you used
clock.<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 03/09/2015 08:08 AM, Liquider wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CACg2Qjnyg9g+SayWYAynAuueF+XMx2syhNjB3LL6LVxcHsAGJg@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote"> A simple means to spawn a preferred
calendar application when double-clicking on a calendar day.<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Filling a bug requesting that for clock would be wise :)<br>
<br>
<br>
Phew, that was long. Now I'll try to <span id="result_box"
class="short_text" lang="en"><span class="hps">summarize my
current point of view:<br>
As I was convinced before, clock has more features than datetime
and the "unique" features of datetime can be accomplished with
clock using the Pango Markup. Basically almost no change is
required to clock in order to users migrate from datetime, just
a small hack *if* they are using a custom format/font. So I
guess this is what needs to be done:<br>
1. We should come up with a way to let users aware of this
Markup in clock. Maybe using presets and/or a link to the wiki.
The SIG could help us here.<br>
2. Do a last(final) release of datetime and move it to
archives(git and bugzilla).<br>
</span></span><span id="result_box" class="short_text" lang="en"><span
class="hps"><span id="result_box" class="short_text" lang="en"><span
class="hps">3. Move the non-duplicate and valid</span></span><span
id="result_box" class="short_text" lang="en"><span class="hps">
bugs/feature requests from datetime to clock.</span></span><br>
4. Announce that to users and downstream.</span></span><span
id="result_box" class="short_text" lang="en"><span class="hps"><br>
5. Am I missing anything?<br>
</span></span><br>
Few more considerations(bear me, I'm almost at the end of this
email):<br>
- The only missing thing I noticed is that clock's tooltip is not
being displayed here, could you please check if this is a bug?<br>
- Some guys were requesting a way to change the text orientation,
useful for vertical or deskbar mode. The gravity attribute could
solve this, but it's not working here too.<br>
<br>
<span id="result_box" class="short_text" lang="en"><span class="hps"><span
id="result_box" class="short_text" lang="en"><span class="hps">As
it seems no coding is going to be needed for now, if you
guys agree with my aforementioned "kill the datetime plot",
</span></span></span></span><span id="result_box"
class="short_text" lang="en"><span class="hps"><span
id="result_box" class="short_text" lang="en"><span class="hps"><span
id="result_box" class="short_text" lang="en"><span
class="hps"><span id="result_box" class="short_text"
lang="en"><span class="hps">I'd like to know I can
help somehow</span></span></span></span>.<br>
</span></span>That's all guys, forgive me for this lengthy
email and for bothering you with such a small matter, although
this situation of duplicate plugins and effort to maintain them
has annoyed me for a while.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
André Miranda<br>
</span></span>
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