Possible panel tweaks (Was: Re: Random thoughts about release)

[Ric]

Hi:

I'd like to preface this(in retrospect) with I luv what has
been done so far with XFce. Y'all are great.

--- Luis Miguel Garcia <ktech at wanadoo.es> wrote:
> On mar, 2003-07-08 at 15:50, Jasper Huijsmans wrote:
> > On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 12:32:14 +0200
> > Jasper Huijsmans <jasper at moongroup.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > 
> > > * I thought about removing the 'Revert' functionality
> > > from the panel item dialogs. 
> > > That would be more in line with our
> > > other dialogs and it doesn't seem that useful,
really.

Revert is the only way to "revert".
Actually, clicking the "Close" button in the top right
corner(usually) should have the same effect as 'Revert and
Close without changes' but it does not when a *new* item is
being added - it leaves the (empty) item on the panel.  If
you (eventually) remove the "Revert" functionality, at
least make it so that 'close' utton just stops the action
and removes any *new* panel item.  Also, IMO, the "Close"
button should have the same effect as "Revert" and then
"Close" when making changes to an existing item. That
action is normally interupted in other programs with a
"Lose Changes?" redundant popup which I personally hate -
please do not add another popup when/if you fix the Close
button on the window to be "Revert" and "Close" and, also,
"Remove" if it is a *Add new item*.


> > > Of course I will have to only hide it, otherwise I
will
> > > cause API change
> > > for plugins. For 4.2 I can then really rip out the
> > > functionality.

Also, I will remind you of the pal to KISS: 
" Do not fix what is not broken. "
(It ain't broke, so leave it alone).


> > Here's another one:
> > 
> > * How about removing the tooltip from the panel menu's?
> > On panel items
> > the tooltip serves the same purpose as the Caption on
> > menu items. Is
> > there really a need for more info? 
> > I think we can remove it?
> > What do you say, guys?

I say no.  
It may come as a surprise but there are a _lot_ of people
who have no idea whatsoever of the meanings of the *nix
icons and/or what xyz program is or does.  An even bigger
shock is that some people have never even heard of emacs,
abiword, ... even mozilla.

That tooltip is a good thing when it is used properly. 
FYI: "Including the kitchen sink" is not utilizing it
properly; it's cute for those that 'get it' but is not
useful for anyone new to *nix on the desktop or,
especially, those new to computer usage.  Using " emacs is
a text editor and much, much more " would be helpful(there
are other (prbly better) tips that could be used...).

Tooltips are not very useful for _experienced_ people only.
 Please rem that Linux and other *nix on the desktop are
far from being well known/used.  The thing that it will do
to help developers is, when used properly, keep the mailbox
from getting messages from users that click on something
and get a surprise that they do not know how to use (or
kill) or, even worse, the "What is emacs?" type questions. 
That, in of itself, is a good reason to have "Tips". Of
course, tips is a 'nice' thing to do, too, for the end
user("Oh yea, _now_ I remember what that is...").


Jasper, 
if you need something to do:
Whenever the pager is displayed in a horizontal panel, the
very last page  is longer than all the rest. (note that it
does not matter if there is anything on that workspace)  My
monitor does not grow horizontally on the last workspace...

(PS: I just noticed that the panel pager last workspace is
TALLER than all the rest when the panel is in "Vertical"
orientation.) 
BTW, that bug is not in the taskbar pager.

An addendum to that is that if the panel grows beyond the
width of the screen there are no hooks to move it around
except at the ends. You can only reach one of those but, of
course, cannot move the panel beyond the screen border
using it. This is a difficult problem& solution which can
only be solved with new code that would presumably only be
the next release: you can: (1)State: " Sorry, panel is
full! " /(2)Ask: "Grow panel beyond borders? " /(3)fix the
hooks so the panel can be moved by clicking on the (center)
borders /(4) ???

Also, I will add that the panel requires manual centering
after an addition (or "Remove") is "Done". It should auto
center or at least provide a check box option to
auto-center the panel, IMO. Furthermore, if the panel is
larger than the screen size, "Center" does not _center_ the
panel on the screen at top, bottom, lft or rt.(that's a
good thing since there no hooks to move it if the ends are
obscured)

Also, the options for the panel in the settings manager
_always_ revert to   "Center: Bottom".  They should, IMO,
keep whatever the previous user defined setting might have
been.  The remember state is not implemented or if it is,
it is broken(here).

Furthermore, when panel "Orientation" is set horizontal and
"Center" is "Left" or "Right", the panel gets put
dead-center in the middle of the screen; when panel
"Orientation" is set Vertical and "Center" is "Top" or
"Bottom", the panel gets put dead-center in the middle of
the screen too.  Not good, IMO. 

AND, when the panel is in 'Hide' mode and is UN-hidden,
with "Normal" layer setting, it does not go to the top
layer until the user clicks on the panel.  Ask yourself, if
a user moves the mouse pointer to UNhide the panel, why,
for goodness sakes, would the user _not_ want the panel on
the top layer without having to also click on the panel??
Rem that clicking on the panel _after_ UNhiding it is not
necessarily intuitive; it is a learned  response.  Yes,
there are mousing glitches to consider but that is a timing
issue not a layer issue.  
And while in that thought, an addendum is: where is the
Settings Mgr/Panel setting  'Timing settings' for the panel
hide/unhide or for the popup tips or for the launcher/menu
items???

And if that is not enough, I can come up with more. 
For example, the "Add new item" has "Systemtray".  It
should be "System Tray", right? 
"Volume Control" does not need an icon(the "volume control"
slider is enough) _or_ the item should be called "Mixer".  
" Mail check " is really "Mail Checker", is it not?
" Help " on the _panel_ rt-clk should open XFce4 doc at the
"Panel" section, whereas "Help" lft-clk on the workspace
opens the XFce4 Help doc at the contents, correct? 
The " Browser " tooltip for "mozilla" is misleading.
Mozilla is not just a browser, it's a monster too. :)  You
can fix that on most systems by using 
/bin/sh -c $BROWSER
instead of "mozilla" in the command line.  Yes, there are
systems that do not have the env variable $BROWSER set (or
set properly) but I will bet a dime to a dollar that it is
fewer than those that do not use mozilla.  At the very
least, wherever a specific browser is used, use the
standard icon associated with the browser.  
Note that the "Help" widget needs to do the same thing - at
least try to find $BROWSER on the system before assuming
mozilla is installed. (Unless y'all actually want XFce4 to
depend upon("Require") mozilla being installed...)

(More: two desktop switchers in the same panel? ;  2 pagers
in the same panel? ; clock will not go into the system
tray(would be nice 'cause it could then display in the
taskbar too if 'Show system Tray in taskbar' is selected) ;
 at some point the list of items in "Add new item" could be
so long that it is off the screen - maybe a subcategory or
two s/b considered now(plugins, toys, extras...) or a way
to scroll the list if it is at the bottom of the screen...

That's all I can come up with off the top of my head...
(sorry, i have no patches for you)

=====
Have A Great Day!

Ric
***

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