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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 27/05/2023 05:59, Euri wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:DK38jLPMpsrI723wNfORuSVFhA4G0teGrv44EOkrYbiufdWqpsRdiU6TUPZ3HgJI3iT1AnPDNJxL5ujPPPZY87yu8WDun_HNlFKAGoq175c=@protonmail.com">
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<div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">Hi,
after everything, let me introduce myself: My name is Euri
(means rain in basque language), and I'm psychologist, I'm
taking a degree in teaching arts in basic education (elementary
and high-school), and I'm taking a UX/UI design degree too.</div>
<div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">So,
I'm really close to the GNOME project (but I'm not part of
them), and I want to help to improve GNU/Linux desktop, so, I
want to offer my help to you, Xfce.</div>
<div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">For
me Xfce is a great DE, and I think it is getting old and out of
time, and I don't want to see the project die (It should keep
updated to the modernity).</div>
<div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">In
the past, I posted an [Article talking about it](<span><a
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener"
href="https://www.eurinaiz.com/blog/GTK-HIGs-And-The-XFCE-Future/"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.eurinaiz.com/blog/GTK-HIGs-And-The-XFCE-Future/</a></span>),
In that moment I had no idea about UX and UI design, but now, I
think I can collaborate more than in the past.</div>
<div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">A
week ago I asked on [reddit about a place to do surveys,](<span><a
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener"
href="https://www.reddit.com/r/xfce/comments/13nle5p/where_can_i_do_surveys_for_gnulinux_desktop/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.reddit.com/r/xfce/comments/13nle5p/where_can_i_do_surveys_for_gnulinux_desktop/</a></span>)
and nogafam.es gave me a nextcloud account (to use nextcloud
forms).</div>
<div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">I
have some ideas to make Xfce even more great, I have in mind a
big changes that can be done to make a real modernisation in
Xfce.</div>
<div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">But,
first, I'd like to do some surveys to know about Xfce user's
expectations and what would be appreciated, I've read the
roadmap already, so I know about the Xfce's vision and I think
that my apportions would be appreciated.</div>
<div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">Today
I joined a GNOME Latam (I'm a spanish native speaker) conference
talking about the design team in Libre Software projects.</div>
<div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">In
general my ideas are the following, I just list them to expose
em, but I don't want to discuss them in this thread and right
now, 1st I'd like to make the surveys and next, start to discuss
em. Also I wont base my propositions right now, because it
should be done in the discuss thread and topic by topic.</div>
<div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">
<ol>
<li><span>New website design</span></li>
<li><span>Rebrand Xfce with new logo, new slogan, typography,
etc.</span></li>
</ol>
</div>
</blockquote>
These points are fair enough. They don't touch the style of Xfce at
all, just the website. But it doesn't really seem to do much. For
example, you've not stated what's wrong with the current website.
Change for change's sake just diverts effort from the maintenance of
the project. The current website is clean and light; it gives you
all the relevant information right on the front page, above the fold
even - what XFCE is, what it looks like, what's new and where to get
it are all immediately accessible. The logo is simple, but clearly
identifiable.<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:DK38jLPMpsrI723wNfORuSVFhA4G0teGrv44EOkrYbiufdWqpsRdiU6TUPZ3HgJI3iT1AnPDNJxL5ujPPPZY87yu8WDun_HNlFKAGoq175c=@protonmail.com">
<div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">
<ol>
<li><span>Move the forum to a new discourse instance (to
replace mailing list and FluxBB instance)</span></li>
</ol>
</div>
</blockquote>
No thanks. Mailing lists have the unique advantage that they are
delivered to the subscribers, rather than requiring the subscribers
to go fetch the information themselves. <br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:DK38jLPMpsrI723wNfORuSVFhA4G0teGrv44EOkrYbiufdWqpsRdiU6TUPZ3HgJI3iT1AnPDNJxL5ujPPPZY87yu8WDun_HNlFKAGoq175c=@protonmail.com">
<div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">
<ol>
<li><span>Redesign Xfce default layout and make the designs
predictable to theming</span></li>
</ol>
</div>
</blockquote>
To what end? The website says that XFCE aims "to be fast and low on
system resources, while still being visually appealing and user
friendly." People actively choose XFCE over GNOME because of the
fact that it's lightweight and familiar. I'm not saying there isn't
room for improvement, but you'll find the users more conservative
than GNOME users, I believe.<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:DK38jLPMpsrI723wNfORuSVFhA4G0teGrv44EOkrYbiufdWqpsRdiU6TUPZ3HgJI3iT1AnPDNJxL5ujPPPZY87yu8WDun_HNlFKAGoq175c=@protonmail.com">
<div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">
<ol>
<li><span>Adopting Libadwaita as part of Xfce (as well the
HIG, anyway Xfce has GNOME's HIGs as its official HIGs)</span></li>
</ol>
</div>
</blockquote>
That seems unlikely to happen. libadwaita appears to be a GNOME
thing and XFCE isn't GNOME. <br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:DK38jLPMpsrI723wNfORuSVFhA4G0teGrv44EOkrYbiufdWqpsRdiU6TUPZ3HgJI3iT1AnPDNJxL5ujPPPZY87yu8WDun_HNlFKAGoq175c=@protonmail.com">
<div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">
<ol>
<li><span>Redesign all the apps to use correctly CSD and
headerbars</span></li>
</ol>
</div>
</blockquote>
Why? What's the point of CSD? Doesn't that decrease the visual
harmony if every application is responsible for drawing it's own
borders? And, with X12 (sorry, Wayland) being much less network
based, does it really matter?<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:DK38jLPMpsrI723wNfORuSVFhA4G0teGrv44EOkrYbiufdWqpsRdiU6TUPZ3HgJI3iT1AnPDNJxL5ujPPPZY87yu8WDun_HNlFKAGoq175c=@protonmail.com">
<div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">
<ol>
<li><span>Apply all UX fundaments to make the system and apps
more usable and accesible</span></li>
</ol>
</div>
</blockquote>
I suspect XFCE already has its own UX guidelines, although you seem
to be implying that there are none at all. Or had you something
concrete in mind?<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:DK38jLPMpsrI723wNfORuSVFhA4G0teGrv44EOkrYbiufdWqpsRdiU6TUPZ3HgJI3iT1AnPDNJxL5ujPPPZY87yu8WDun_HNlFKAGoq175c=@protonmail.com">
<div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">
<ol>
<li><span>Adopting Flatpak & Flathub as the official
distribution channels</span></li>
</ol>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>Haha, no. Vendorisation maybe well and good for end-user
applications such as web browsers or editors, but for something at
a system level like a desktop environment or a window manager,
these REALLY SHOULD be in the purview of the distribution.
Vendorising a desktop environment is just insane because - well,
let's take your idea of libadwaita. How many copies of libadwaita
would you have on a system if you had flatpaks for the window
manger, the session manger, the taskbar, each of the plugins? <br>
</p>
<p>Is it just that you're being lazy and you'd rather just compile
things for one target, rather than several?<br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:DK38jLPMpsrI723wNfORuSVFhA4G0teGrv44EOkrYbiufdWqpsRdiU6TUPZ3HgJI3iT1AnPDNJxL5ujPPPZY87yu8WDun_HNlFKAGoq175c=@protonmail.com">
<div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">
<ol>
<li><span>A fully Matrix adoption (Irc is too old to nowdays
and it hasn't advantages)</span></li>
</ol>
</div>
</blockquote>
That's a bit eager. There's really no reason to ditch IRC when
IRC<->Matrix bridges exist.<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:DK38jLPMpsrI723wNfORuSVFhA4G0teGrv44EOkrYbiufdWqpsRdiU6TUPZ3HgJI3iT1AnPDNJxL5ujPPPZY87yu8WDun_HNlFKAGoq175c=@protonmail.com">
<div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">
<ol>
<li><span>A <span>self-support plan for XFCE</span></span></li>
</ol>
</div>
</blockquote>
What do you mean by this? There's already a mailing list, and forums
and IRC.<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:DK38jLPMpsrI723wNfORuSVFhA4G0teGrv44EOkrYbiufdWqpsRdiU6TUPZ3HgJI3iT1AnPDNJxL5ujPPPZY87yu8WDun_HNlFKAGoq175c=@protonmail.com">
<div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">
<ol>
<li><span><span>Adopting technology (<span>don't reinvent the
wheel</span>) to focus in creating new and better
GNU/linux apps</span></span></li>
</ol>
</div>
</blockquote>
This feels very vague. What are you trying to say with this one?<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:DK38jLPMpsrI723wNfORuSVFhA4G0teGrv44EOkrYbiufdWqpsRdiU6TUPZ3HgJI3iT1AnPDNJxL5ujPPPZY87yu8WDun_HNlFKAGoq175c=@protonmail.com">
<div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I'm gonna wait your replies, merci beaucoup.<br>
</div>
</div>
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<fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
Xfce mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Xfce@xfce.org">Xfce@xfce.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://mail.xfce.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce">https://mail.xfce.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.xfce.org">http://www.xfce.org</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
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