<!DOCTYPE html><html><head><title></title><style type="text/css">p.MsoNormal,p.MsoNoSpacing{margin:0}</style></head><body><div><br></div><div>On Tue, Oct 22, 2019, at 8:19 AM, jEsuSdA 8) wrote:<br></div><blockquote type="cite" id="qt"><div>Thank you so much for your words.<br></div><div><br></div><div>I understand a bit better what new CSD roadmap consists.<br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>I understand your motivations, but I think the problem caused by CSD <br></div><div>still there.<br></div><div><br></div><div>For example (mousepad with CSD):<br></div><div><br></div><div>https://imgur.com/HHNAFw6.png<br></div><div><br></div><div>Here you can see some interesting things:<br></div><div><br></div><div>- Hacking Compton (or another window compositor) you can avoid double <br></div><div>shadows, but other related problems persists. I'm using "background <br></div><div>blur" and as you can see all around mousepad looks blurred. An effect <br></div><div>not welcome.<br></div><div><br></div><div>But, yes. I understand not all the people will using another window <br></div><div>compositor but XFWM. So it is my problem. Maybe if XFWM could be more <br></div><div>efficient and configurable I can go back to it in the future.<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div>Yeah, I think there are fixes needed in Compton, but it appears to no longer be maintained.<br></div><div><a href="https://github.com/chjj/compton">https://github.com/chjj/compton</a> last commit in 2017.<br></div></div><div><br></div><blockquote type="cite" id="qt"><div><br></div><div>- As you can see the appearance of CSD and non-CSD windows are <br></div><div>completely different. Mousepad Vs. Pluma. Not the same borders, not the <br></div><div>same shadows, not the same window title, not the same buttons or icons, <br></div><div>not the same lights... this is an objective problem, I think.<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>The CSD and non-CSD windows could be made the same, and I'd argue this is a bug in Greybird and any other themes where these differ.<br></div><div><br></div><blockquote type="cite" id="qt"><div><br></div><div>- Maybe for some users like you the "roll" feature is nonsense, but it <br></div><div>is very useful. If XFCE want to be user-focused as always, dropping <br></div><div>these features could be considered a step backward.<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I agree that we shouldn't move backwards with these sorts of features, and there might be ways for us to handle this within Xfwm. It requires further exploration.<br></div><div><br></div><blockquote type="cite" id="qt"><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>But, you wrote some ideas I consider interesting: Maybe if you proceed <br></div><div>to add CSD but you ensure some users like me can start these <br></div><div>applications with gtk3-nocsd or GTK_CSD=0 and they could work fine, this <br></div><div>could be a good solution to bring happiness to all users.<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Definitely. Any place where we are not explicitly using headerbars (e.g. we use CSD titlebar decorations), turning CSD off is just a matter of the GTK_CSD=0 flag. In theory, we could add this to the settings manager.<br></div><div><br></div><blockquote type="cite" id="qt"><div><br></div><div>The ones who like CSD could follow the new XFCE standard out-of-the-box, <br></div><div>and the ones who hate that could force no-csd and being happy.<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I think there's an inherent risk to depending on gtk3-nocsd in general. As the project page states, it's a hack. And it hasn't seen updates since 2016.<br></div><div><br></div><div><a href="https://github.com/PCMan/gtk3-nocsd">https://github.com/PCMan/gtk3-nocsd</a><br></div><div><br></div><blockquote type="cite" id="qt"><div><br></div><div>So I suggest could be interesting to add a configuration parameter in <br></div><div>Control Panel to switch on or off the CSD and it will be great.<br></div><div><br></div><div>What do you think?<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Whatever we do, we don't want to alienate our users and our developers. It's hard to strike a balance between users that want new features and those that don't like change, and this happens to be a particularly divisive change.<br></div><div><br></div><blockquote type="cite" id="qt"><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Thanks a lot for your time and efforts. ;)<br></div><div>_______________________________________________<br></div><div>Xfce mailing list<br></div><div>Xfce@xfce.org<br></div><div>https://mail.xfce.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce<br></div><div>http://www.xfce.org<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div></body></html>