[Xfce-i18n] About German translations

Sun Oct 19 18:01:38 CEST 2008

Hey,

Am Sun, 19 Oct 2008 17:48:25 +0200
schrieb Enrico Tröger <enrico.troeger at uvena.de>:

> On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 16:17:39 +0200, Jannis Pohlmann <jannis at xfce.org>
> wrote:
> 
> Huhu,
> 
> >Am Sun, 19 Oct 2008 13:46:24 +0200
> >schrieb Fabian Nowak <timystery at arcor.de>:
> >
> >> Am Sonntag, den 19.10.2008, 02:49 +0200 schrieb Jannis Pohlmann:
> >> > Hey,
> >> 
> >> Hey back (I guess I was meant),
> >> 
> >> > 
> >> > I just gave the German translations of xfce4-settings some love.
> >> > Please don't take this as a rant even though I know it is one. I
> >> > just think the translations could be significantly improved if
> >> > they 
> >> > 
> >> >   a) were consistent,
> >> >   b) were correct,
> >> 
> >> hey, these are beta translations -- I did not yet revision them. Do
> >> you apply as voluntary revisor? That'd be cool.
> >
> >I didn't you know there is something like 'beta' translations. But
> >as I plan to improve strings in Xfce before the next beta I can as
> >well try to revise the German translations for them.
> 
> Why are you so panic about translations? We didn't even reach the
> string freeze so things still might change. This only complicates the
> translating process and making the string freeze less important.

Oh, I'm not panicking at all. I know we're not in string freeze yet.

> >> > 	     - If a group of labels ends with ":" in English,
> >> > don't drop the ":" in some of their German translations but not
> >> > in others.
> >> 
> >> 	Ah yes, when there are 20 strings marked fuzzy and you
> >> repair one by one, some msgstrings might stay unchanged with the
> >> colon left or removed -- part of the revisioning process.
> >
> >Ideally you'd translate, then install the translations and see how
> >they look in the actual UI. If you do that, you'll notice the
> >differences.
> 
> Isn't this the way all translators should work?
> Translating without testing/viewing the translation doesn't seem
> reasonable to me. At least with some basic testing(install the updated
> translation and start the app) most typos and errors can be killed
> before anything is committed.

Yes. 

> >> Though, it sometimes is better to use an individual style for the
> >> translations, thus always using the colon or never in contrast to
> >> the original strings. In most cases, tooltip texts are concerned
> >> where ending them with a regular period is preferrable
> >> independently from what the developer chose formerly.
> >
> >What do you mean by "individual style"? Of course whether to append
> >colons or not depends on how it is usually done in your language. And
> >that has to be consistent.
> 
> Well, in German we have a pretty clear ruleset for sentences, the most
> simple one is S-P-O, "Subjekt-Prädikat-Objekt", if these three
> criteria are met, it's a sentence and has to be ended with a full
> stop. Of course this is not the only rule but it's pretty good as a
> base.

Right. BTW, I don't agree on full stops at the end of tooltips. In
English you usually also have full stops at the end of sentences but in
tooltips you don't. Personally, I'd vote for doing the same in the
German translations. However, I'm not so sure and maybe the GNOME HIG
has some information about that.

> >> > 
> >> >   b) - "Enable" does not mean "einstellen". It means
> >> > "aktivieren", "einschalten", "verwenden", "benutzen" or whatever
> >> > depending on the context it is used in. 
> >> 
> >> Uuh, you can't say that in general. The thing is that sometimes the
> >> devs themselves just use *some* string; and the translators have to
> >> fix it by choosing the correct words, not the direct translation.
> >> Of course, you might still be right; please point to the exact
> >> translation then.
> >
> >It's right, a lot of our English strings could use some improvements.
> >But "einstellen" is neutral (it doesn't say whether something is
> >going to be activated or deactivated) whereas "enable" clearly is the
> >opposite of "disable" and thus explains what it does.
> 
> 
> Full ACK.
> "enable" has never a similar meaning as "einstellen".
> 
> 
> >> >      - "Button" is not "Knopf" - it's "Schaltfläche"! 
> >> 
> >> Button is "Knopf". See your given URL, way more translations for
> >> "Knopf". Thus, I asked a MAC user how she would translate it. Her
> >> first reply was "Knopf". Asked about what to expect from
> >> "Schaltfläche", she answered "a wide button", meaning like a toggle
> >> button. She later admitted, that Apple might have chosen
> >> "Schaltfläche" everywhere, but asked on how to label the OK buttons
> >> on the small information dialogs etc, she answered "Knopf" again.
> >> So it depends on the context; but in general, "Knopf" is correct,
> >> "Schaltfläche" is something different. (Actually, one part of my
> >> in-depth examinations at university was usability in real-time
> >> systems such as big terminals etc.: Human-Machine Interfaces in
> >> Production Environments)
> >
> >(That doesn't impress me too much. My minor subject at the University
> >is all about user interfaces and usability as well.)
> >
> >Personally, I strongly prefer "Schaltfläche". But I agree that you
> >can argue about that. If you check
> >http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schaltfl%C3%A4che or
> >http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grafische_Benutzeroberfl%C3%A4che you'll
> >not find "Knopf" anywhere. To me it sounds just wrong.
> 
> Full ACK again.
> 'Knopf' sucks. It reminds of the buttons I have on my jacket to close
> it when I'm freezing :D.

Exactly. IMHO it is not suitable as a technical term. 

> >> >      - Don't upload translations like "... udn den
> >> > SChwellwert ...", will you? 
> >> 
> >> Uh, depends ;) That's what revision and revisors are for, aren't
> >> they?
> >
> >Additional revisions are good, but translating carefully right from
> >the start doesn't sound too bad either ;)
> 
> And again full ACK.
> Fabian, you don't really want to say that you don't care about typos
> and sub-optimal translations because someone(including you) might be
> revise this later?
> IMO this is a bad approach to start any work.
> Do it the best as you can and your time permits, then check it, then
> release it (i.e. commit to the repo or send a patch).
> 
> 
> 
> Jannis, inspired by your first posting in this thread, would you like
> to update/extend the wiki page on http://i18n.xfce.org/wiki/team_de?
> Just to get a base we can work on.

Good idea, thanks for the pointer. 

  - Jannis
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 197 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mail.xfce.org/pipermail/xfce-i18n/attachments/20081019/09ac1d32/attachment.pgp>